Chinese Import/Export Fake Contract "Guilin" Scam

[jkefa]

This is for the business members of this site - but all can give me their opinion if I'm excessively paranoid & defensive.

I received an email from a company wanting to buy stock from me.
I'm based in Melbourne Australia, and sell premixed coffees - the prospective buyer is Chinese.
They request a price list - I OK this.
They come back with an order of $400k of stock.
I suggest they should buy a sample lot first ~$15k
They are firm - they want $400k... who am I to argue.
I suggest 100% prepayment - they say 50% - we agree on 80%
Now they want me to visit them to sign an agreement.
OK - $3000 for the round trip isn't a lot of $ - but the week spent??? would be OK if my spidy senses weren't tingling.

I've asked for their DUNS#, company registration # ... still waiting.

Is my experience common?
Am I overly cautious? .
I welcome informed comments

jkefa
Maybe we can have a coffee together if you are in Melbourne some time.

[Nyla]

Well, admittedly, that doesn't sound quite like the usual scam approach, but you're right to be suspicious. Generally, scammers will try to avoid actually meeting when trying to buy a large order and not pay for it completely. It's possible they think you'll decline to spend the money and time to come see them in person and are just bluffing on that point. A few possible scenarios did present themselves, though, when I thought about it.

What is the payment method you agreed upon? I doubt, with an amount that large, that they could be planning a credit card scam. They could, however, be planning to "flash" your bank account if it's a bank transfer. Scammers sometimes fund a bank transfer with a bad/forged check and the money appears to be there until the fraud is discovered. (Or, similarly, they could just pay with a bad/forged check. With an international transaction like this, it could be quite a while before the fraud is discovered. Several weeks.) If you were to send the merchandise before the bank informs you, it's unlikely you would be able to stop it mid-shipping. More rarely, scammers have been found to have accomplices inside banks that will set up, then reverse, a bank transfer.

There's also the possibility that they just plan on scamming you for your "favors" while you're in China, "finalizing the deal". I've heard a few accounts of people going to China to work on business deals, spending a few days wining, dining and entertaining "company executives", only to find that at the end of the visit, they were stuck with an exorbitant entertainment bill and no lucrative business deal.

It does seem extremely odd that they wouldn't want to take the smaller risk and place a smaller order. If they did actually pay the 80% up front then stiff you on the additional 20%, that would still be a tidy $80,000 they've stolen from you. Even if it's a fully registered, legitimate company, you might have a great deal of trouble taking international criminal or civil legal action against them.

[Daneel]

Third option I'd say, there is this type of scam where they make a huge order, and insist that you come to China. Then you have to pay for dinners, gifts, hotel bills etc... and at some point they simply disappear. Here are some articles on it:
http://www.marketnewzealand.com/mnz/...403/17038.aspx
http://www.eastmids-china.co.uk/pote...camsalert.html
http://www.chinabusinessservices.com/blog/?p=419
http://www.buyusa.gov/pittsburgh/366.html
http://www.chinasnippets.com/2006/03...s-china-fever/
http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=898967
What you describe fits the profile, and these particular scammers are not afraid to meet their victims in person. I would suggest refusing to come to China and see what happens, if they keep insisting they are probably running a scam. You didn't mention the name of the company, but try searching it in Google. There are also those you can hire to check out Chinese companies, here are some options:
http://resources.alibaba.com/topic/1...or_report_.htm

[jkefa]

I hadn't heard about the "wining, dining & leaving you with the bill" scam before - other than business people in "foreign" [or at times local] bars & pretty women doing the scamming.

Further to all this - I've been told there is no DUNs # but given a registration number... I'll need to find how to validate this.

Thanks again... and for your information
1) the Chinese company is insisting I go to China
2) google searches show this company registered with a variety of trading houses in July 07... but no independent/credible references
3) the trading contacts are all different persons, all representing themselves as purchasing managers.

Spidy senses are going berserk!!!

Thanks for your comments
oh... by the way the company I'm dealing with is LiAng Touzi in Guilin.
Any personal experiences would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
jkefa

[Daneel]

There has been more than one such scam company from Guilin:
http://resources.alibaba.com/topic/1...nt_CO_LTD_.htm
http://resources.alibaba.com/topic/1...nt_CO_LTD_.htm
http://resources.alibaba.com/topic/4...iye_Co_Ltd.htm
http://resources.alibaba.com/topic/4...IGHT_FRAUD.htm

[jkefa]

Thanks for your replies.
Very enlightening.

The model seems to be the same as that used previously.
I've made a point to suggesting some controls to the Alibaba site - which was the original lead mechanism.

Also noted... a lot of anger out there for the companies that lure unsuspecting [maybe a touch greedy or at least over zealous] businesses.

cheers to all.

jkefa
Nylar...Daneel - IOU a coffee!

[jkefa]

For those following the drama unfold...

Emails are now "bouncing"... no such person.
Who would have guessed.

Thanks again for your insight.

Cheers from downunder.

Jkefa

[Daneel]

Just received over a $400,000USD order from the company you talk about. I was suspicious right away .... and rightly so.
There must be a better way to warn people.
Here is her contact info:
Lisa
LiAng Touzi Co.
E-MAIL: latzcn007@yahoo.com.cn
The company is: wwww.latzcn.com and is hosted by a company known for allowing fraud on their sites, XIN NET TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION.
Trade portals are great, until you get more fraud, more scams and more spam that real business.

[escrow-fraud]

Originally Posted by JPG

Just received over a $400,000USD order from the company you talk about. I was suspicious right away .... and rightly so.
There must be a better way to warn people.
Here is her contact info:
Lisa
LiAng Touzi Co.
E-MAIL: latzcn007@yahoo.com.cn
The company is: wwww.latzcn.com and is hosted by a company known for allowing fraud on their sites, XIN NET TECHNOLOGY CORPORATION.
Trade portals are great, until you get more fraud, more scams and more spam that real business.

perhaps is bettter. 3 w's only....

[jkefa]

I'm interested to know what happened to you.

If you would rather keep it private... that's OK - otherwise maybe we can email each other?

Thanks
jkefa

[nunnyx]

Dear All

I've been contacted by Liang Touzi Co, because they wish to buy wine for 300,000 usd. At the beginning I talked to Bonny Li, now I'm talking with Cathleen. They asked me for samples, but as they do not have importation licence, I preferred to not send samples. So they asked for analysis. I send some analisys but in Italian language. They said they would have done some market researches and then they will place the order. They will also send a contract and obviuosly invited me to go to China.

What do you advise to do? Still having correspondance with them in order to see until what point they will arrive or stopping it right now?
Thanks

[jkefa]

NunnyX

My dealing with this company:
1) They have no Duns & Bradstreet number. How can any company dealing in hundreds of thousands of dollars not have DUNs# credit report.
2) All public info regarding this company is from May 07 onwards... therefore company is not very old.
3) Web info is essentiall references to various trading web sites such as Alibaba - these are an open platform with no true evaluation of validation.
4) They wanted to buy $A400,000 of stock from me - but did not want to by any samples. Don't know about your experience - but I haven't found anyone that trusting [or naive] in the passed. Most would require 1 or 2 units of each product to evaluate.


All in all - I now think they are a waste of time & I wouldn't spend any money on them.

I hope this helps.

[jkefa]

NunnyX

The way I approached it is..are they serious in buying my product?
So I suggest that before you spend money going to China [please refer to the links on earlier postings] get them to buy samples.
I would suggest they shouldn't need any agreement to purchase $U3,000 [or more] sample stock.
Maybe you try to get them to purchase enough sample stock to partially fund your China trip?

I found that when I started doing this - their English became quite poor & they didn't understand.

I even offered they purchase samples I would discount their "big" order by the purchase amount - nil response.

Hope this helps.
jkefa

We have rcved order from them last month, it was almost $320,000.00.
But, They insisted of signing on Contract in their china office.
Yes, I thougt, I could get over to sign on Contract, but, something was very suspicious.
1.They sent e-mail us, saying that they are very intersting our products and want to import and sell them in their china market.
* I can not understand that, they are goin to sell in their market?
- How can they sell $320,000 of beauty salon equipment without any market research?.
- They did not ask us for any evaluation sample,( Salon electric equipment is sensitive and high technical machine, and also, it should be made for electric outlet of their market, that's way, they need an evaluation sample)


2.They asked Quotaion, and as soon as they rcved our Quotion, they sent us their contract , asking visit their office to sign on.
- We want to amend price term, Wire Transfer, 100% in advance, they say, "YES"-but, they told me , you should be china and sign on contact first.!!!
- We have been exporting our product to U.S.A,Japan for 4years, but, I never experience this case of BZ.

*. Finally, I think, their most important thing is not price, produts.
Pls. Be away from Them.
B.rgds
JEONG

Same company, same story. No samples want to place £200,000 order, send contract offering 50% T/T then 50% open L/C on peoples bank of china. Now they are keen for us to go to China to sign contract. They are offering to book hotels etc etc. Nasty smell about it all
Cheers

[njh1959]

I've got the same story! Large order for premium foods we produce in England. Price agreed OK. Money to be upfront. Please visit us in China next week to sign the contract.
Has anyone actually been to visit?
I'm suspicious because -
1. they haven't looked at the technical spec of the products enough
2. they don't want to do any trials
but, its a big market so i don't want to walk away if it is genuine!

Advice please!

[Maulwurf]

We are contacted by this company as well asking us for canned luncheon meat. They explained us that they are part of a state enterprise buying in large quantities--- bull****
They have no registration and nothing.
Without having any price quota from us, they asked if we will give discount.
These are gamblers to be compared with unserious peoüples from Africa, taking contact for fishing samples and money transfer for sample shipment. Take care !
Maulwurf

Originally Posted by nunnyx

Dear All

I've been contacted by Liang Touzi Co, because they wish to buy wine for 300,000 usd. At the beginning I talked to Bonny Li, now I'm talking with Cathleen. They asked me for samples, but as they do not have importation licence, I preferred to not send samples. So they asked for analysis. I send some analisys but in Italian language. They said they would have done some market researches and then they will place the order. They will also send a contract and obviuosly invited me to go to China.

What do you advise to do? Still having correspondance with them in order to see until what point they will arrive or stopping it right now?
Thanks

[sfquique]

Just received same order for over 300.000 US FOB in wines, without samples, we changed prices they dont care at all. They only want us to go to their office and sign contract for ong lasting happyness......
By the way, our CEO instructed an investigation on company:

Liang Touzi Co.
Address：JunLong High-rise NO.1 MaoTang Road,NO.8 XinJian GaoXin District Guilin 541004,Guangxi P.R. China
Tel：+86-773-3339583
Fax: +86-773-5838068

Ang Li: latzcn015@yahoo.com.cn Contact:Molly Mo

Phones are not correct, peolpe are suspicious.
They suposedly sell many things and you cant reach them anywhere by phone.

PLEASE BE VERY CAREFUL IN LOSING PRECIOUS TIME ON THESE FRAUDS

Hello. Thanks for your stories above, they really saved me from troubles.

I got an order for 230.000 Euros for construction materials that require very specialised application. They told me that their market prospects were based on their market research with customers in their mall. Quite a surprise considering these products are used primarily by engineers, and construction companies. Something smelt fishy.

They were also very prompt in sending me an invitation letter for the Chinese Embassy in Athens so that I could get a visa to travel. They were pressuring me to visit Guilin and meet their CEO straight away.

They also offered to book me a hotel for 120USD per night, although I found top hotels in Guilin on the internet for only 50 USD!