ACN telephone services..pyramid scam or not???

Originally Posted by Daneel

There are also both monthly and yearly fees they tend not to mention. Seminars you need to pay for are a part of it too.

Most people who join ACN lose money. They should not have a problem admitting this, but try to get an actual percentage if you can. And try to get figures on average incomes for people at all the different levels, this is information they will never give out in public.

Donald Trump's role is being a marketing ploy as far as I can tell. Every single ACN promoter will mention him as often as possible.

There are no monthly fees and no seminar fees. It is not designed to get rich quick! You provide customers with a chance to save money. If those customers want to start a home based business with an opportunity - then it is their choice. Unfortunately, many ACN reps try to hard sell the business model where I believe it should sell itself to those people who see the opportunity and are willing to slowly build a business without pressure sales or false claims. That is how you lose friends.

I look at it as a small investment into a model that makes sense. The services offered continue to grow from telecom, satellite and security to utilities. What better service to offer from one spot than monthly bills that we are all paying anyways. If your customer saves, then they are pleased with you. I always give the option to the customer of them becoming a rep. If they are not interested, then I leave it at that.

[Daneel]

Originally Posted by rowett

There are no monthly fees and no seminar fees

Monthly fees are mentioned on several sites from multiple sources. Seminars, that you need to pay for, I've also seen mentioned by a number of people, though not that they're required to stay in the program or anything of course.

I've quoted my sources previously in this thread. If you have any on this besides your own experience, please do quote them. Especially if you have seen anything from ACN themselves on this. I do like facts.

Originally Posted by rowett

It is not designed to get rich quick!

That I definitely agree with. If you can use the system to make some small amounts of money without ripping people off, then, good luck to you, honestly.

So you do not see these more deceptive promoters as a product of the business model, or (shock!) even a requirement for the model to function?


In unrelated news, Robert Fitzpatrick, who is an authority on MLMs as opposed to myself, is not too impressed by Donald Trump:
http://www.falseprofits.com/FalseProfitsBlog.html

More from him on ACN:
http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/ps...ACNScheme.html

Another interesting note from this site, though this was regarding AmWay rather than ACN:
http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PS...midScheme.html

FTC declarations have stated that if the majority of the money used to pay the "upliners" is gained primarily from the purchases of the downliners – not from their retail customers – the payments are de facto payments for recruiting. In such cases, the "business opportunity" is not to sell the MLM products but to recruit others into the "business opportunity" in an endless chain. Endless chains are considered "inherent frauds" since they cannot deliver on their promise of income to any but a few at the top; the vast majority are doomed from the start to financial losses; and the schemes must use deception to lure consumers into nearly certain financial losses.

According to this, the FTC in other words consider programs that rely on an infinite line of recruiting, as ACN in effect does according to promoters, to be "inherently fraudulent".

If any ACN promoter wants to post here, go ahead and describe to me:

+ How would your downline look like, infinite or not, and what do you expect to make from this? Make sure to include math and links to public ACN payment schedules.
+ Why is this not a pyramid scheme, as in, an unsustainable business model?

Feel free to take this in private if you like, I promise I will keep private conversations confidential if you request this. But keep regurgitating mindless marketing gunk on the forum and it will be deleted as the advertising it is.

Oh, and why is ACN still operating if they're a pyramid scheme? That is actually a very good question, and I can think of a few reasons. But maybe you should ask yourself that. If you've left it and realised it wasn't your "lack of hard work" that made you "fail", I think you definitely should ask a lot of people this question, such as the FTC and your attorney general for example.

[clearverbiage]

Besides, all said, I feel that the sales tactics used is totally unfair.

1) Pre suggestion.

This is to lead the Customer / Victim with a sting of questons that will evoke a yes answer, pre programing the person to say YES at the closure.

This coupled with third party closure, Which Is Illeagal In Many Parts Of The World.

This is using a third party via phone to force a closure, or

Ask-the-Manager Close - use manager as authority.
Be low are some techniques that were / are employed.

1-2-3 Close - close with the principle of three.
Adjournment Close - give them time to think.
Affordable Close - ensuring people can afford what you are selling.
Alternative Close - offering a limited set of choices.
Artisan Close - show the skill of the designer.
Assumptive Close - acting as if they are ready to decide.
Balance-sheet Close - adding up the pros and the cons.
Best-time Close - emphasize how now is the best time to buy.
Bonus Close - offer delighter to clinch the deal.
Bracket Close - make three offers - with the target in the middle.
Calculator Close - use calculator to do discount.
Calendar Close - put it in the diary.
Companion Close - sell to the person with them.
Compliment Close - flatter them into submission.
Concession Close - give them a concession in exchange for the close.
Conditional Close - link closure to resolving objections.
Cost of Ownership Close - compare cost over time with competitors.
Courtship Close - woo them to the close.
Customer-care Close - the Customer Care Manager calls later and re-opens the conversation.
Daily Cost Close - reduce cost to daily amount.
Demonstration Close - show them the goods.
Distraction Close - catch them in a weak moment.
Doubt Close - show you doubt the product and let them disagree.
Economic Close - help them pay less for what they get.
Embarrassment Close - make not buying embarrassing.
Emotion Close - trigger identified emotions.
Empathy Close - empathize with them, then sell to your new friend.
Empty-offer Close - make them an empty offer that the sale fills.
Exclusivity Close - not everyone can buy this.
Extra Information Close - give them more info to tip them into closure.
Fire Sale Close - soiled goods, going cheap.
Future Close - close on a future date.
Give-Take Close - give something, then take it away.
Golden Bridge Close - make the only option attractive.
Handover Close - someone else does the final close.
Handshake Close - offer handshake to trigger automatic reciprocation.
Humor Close - relax them with humor.
Hurry Close - go fast to stop them thinking too much.
IQ Close - say how this is for intelligent people.
Minor points Close - close first on the small things.
Never-the-best-time Close - for customers who are delaying.
No-hassle Close - make it as easy as possible.
Now-or-never Close - to hurry things up.
Opportunity Cost Close - show cost of not buying.
Ownership Close - act as if they own what you are selling.
Price-promise Close - promise to meet any other price.
Puppy Close - acting cute to invoke sympathy and a nurturing response.
Quality Close - sell on quality, not on price.
Rational Close - use logic and reason.
Repetition Close - repeat a closing action several times.
Retrial Close - go back to square one.
Reversal Close - act as if you do not want them to buy the product.
Save-the-world close: - buy now and help save the world.
Selective-deafness Close - respond only to what you want to hear.
Shame Close - make not buying shameful.
Shopping List Close - tick off list of their needs.
Similarity Close - bond them to a person in a story.
Standing-room-only Close - show how others are queuing up to buy.
Summary Close - tell them all the things they are going to receive.
Testimonial Close - use a happy customer to convince the new customer.
Thermometer Close - they score out of ten, you close gap.
Think About It Close - give them time to think about it.
Treat Close - persuade them to 'give themselves a treat'.
Trial Close - see if they are ready for a close.
Valuable Customer Close - offer them a special 'valued customer' deal.
Ultimatum Close - show negative consequences of not buying.
Yes-set Close - get them saying 'yes' and they'll keep saying 'yes'.

Though many posted are not illeagal, I feel that ethics just got thrown out the front door.

Admins, This is my oinion and if it needs to be altered and or deleted please do so.

CV

[palindrome]

I am so grateful to have found this thread. My husband got involved in this six weeks ago (i.e. the $499 is now non-refundable!) and it was not until he took me to one of their "events" that i realized what he had gotten himself into. The speakers were so incredibly cheerful and creepy at the same time. I immediately smelled a rat. They tried hard to look affluent, dressing up in fancy suits and wearing a lot of jewelry, but something seemed off. Of course there was lots of talk about all the "checks in the mailbox" every month. I can guarantee that if asked, they would never be able to produce a check stub. The big red flag for me was next to no discussion about their line of products. Everything involved finding new people to sign up, using emotion to get them to join, etc. The video phone is junk (also, ever heard of skype?! it's free! i should have brought that up at the event.) My parents purchased it, lost regular phone service for days, and now can only have this stupid video phone plugged into the back of their home computer along with one other phone, which means they can't plug a phone in anywhere else in their home because everything has to be routed through the modem. Customer service? Non existent. Imagine selling this to hundreds of unhappy people? But according to the event speaker, it is not necessary to know the business, at no point should you sell the business but instead call someone above you - in other words: leave it to the smooth talkers. The fact that one has to contact friends and family and talk them out of $500 a piece is horrifying. And if they don't succeed, which they won't, well guess what: it's all their fault for not trying hard enough. It took me days to talk sense into my spouse, to sit down and crunch the numbers with him. In order to receive the checks in the amount of $30,000/mo. as promised by the speaker he would have to recruit hundreds of people and sell thousands of products. He was asked to bring all of his employees with him, and try to get to to "sign up right away" (before they can think about it, get them while they are hyped up on all the big check stories and vulnerable). The thought of my husband misleading his own employees and making them fork over $500 of their hard earned money made me physically ill. He was ready to sign up for more "training" and fly out of state to a conference. Thanks to this site and some of the stories on here I was able to convince him otherwise. As someone else posted earlier, it is a money grubbing cult. He still receives phone calls from his "mentor" who tells him "Don't listen to your wife!" Simply outrageous.

[Capitola]

I have read your post and would like to first state that your post was one of the few that is not a rant. It was actually well thought out and honest.

I have been in business for years and have come across people who want to "do research". The funny part about that is the people who want to do research do not know how to do research. I know this because I was one of them.

Do you mind if I ask where else you looked online besides this site?

Since you are looking online I am going to assume you are like me and the first place you went was Google? If not you are already a better researcher then I am.

There is a problem with Google Research I learned and that is any or every one can get a site or make a post even if it is not valid information. What I learned about Google is that I can find anything I want both good or bad about any single topic on the planet today. That to me was no longer what I considered good research.

What I decided to do was to contact a friend with a Masters Degree in Business and ask him where he would do research. His recommendations were both the BBB (Better Business Bureau) and the DSA (Direct Selling Association). He also wondered if the company had a legal department and who ran that as well as any charity affiliations. This led me to find out that this company had 3 former State Attorney's General on staff and donate heavily to The Ronald McDonald House.

I have to be honest, after this research I got started and so did my friend with the Masters Degree.

I decided not to let Google or the failure of a couple people who are not willing to do what it takes make my decision. I know I can have success in anything I decide to work on.

If you think it is good or you think it is bad, you're right and that is what you will find.

[Shuecraft]

That's a lot of fine words to say absolutely nothing mate.

[Daneel]

Regarding the "Direct Selling Association":
http://mlm-thetruth.com/dsa

I joined ACN a about 5 month's ago. I was told that gas and electric was coming May 1st. I would not have been interested in this but at my regular job I have thousands of contacts. So i figured what the heck let's give it a try. When I signed up they had a bonus program(become ett in 30 day's and get your money back). So by convincing a couple friend's to get involved I got my money back. I tried to get answer's from my upline on how much money i would make with x amount of customer's and nobody had a clue how it worked. They just want you to harass all my friend's and family to sign up. All these brainwashed idiot's kept telling everyone you made money every time someone paid there bill. Not bad if you made 1-10% on bill's that were a couple hundred dollar's. Well after some research on my business assistant website(30$ a month to track all the money your making). On any cell phone contract,satellite or Adt security it's not based on the monthly bill.
This is how i thought it was
Verizon bill-120$ 1% of that would be 1.20 a month
Actually way they pay out
Verizon bill-120$ Doesn't mean @@@@
They pay 40$ over the life of a 2 year contract
40/24= 1.66 total paid every month..So 1% of 1.66 would be .016 Wow almost 2 pennies a month. This is the same for CELL PHONE CONTRACTS,DISH AND DIRECT TV. ADT is actually 20$ paid over the life of the contract.
So after finding this out I was quite ****ed and took this info to my upline and they had no clue that it worked like this. I mean all you have to do is read the fine print. But these brainwashed idiots didn't really care and just wanted more reps. The next issue that i had was i signed up one my customer's from my day job on a landline. This landline was at his business and a his line got shut off by ACN for five day's and they kept giving him the run around. I finally told him to cancel ACN and go back with the local provider. He wanted me to give him money for lost credit card sales since he lost customer's. At that moment I realized i can not put my friends and my customer's from my day job in jeopardy. I know that some people do make money doing this but most fail. It is hard work to make any descent money. So I canceled my video phone(which is junk anyway's) and I am out about 400$ total. 200 for the video phone..200 to cancel the video phone service.
IF ANYBODY APPROACHES YOU ABOUT ACN...RRRRUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!

[Nyla]

Originally Posted by Capitola

He also wondered if the company had a legal department and who ran that as well as any charity affiliations. This led me to find out that this company had 3 former State Attorney's General on staff and donate heavily to The Ronald McDonald House.

Former State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer broke the law by patronizing a prostitution ring and had to resign from his then-current office in disgrace.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Spitzer

Bernie Madoff made charitable contributions in the multiple millions.

http://blog.nozasearch.com/2009/03/2...ng-record.aspx

Those are just two extremely high profile examples of why those facts aren't a guarantee of any sort even if verified.

[Daneel]

Originally Posted by palindrome

He still receives phone calls from his "mentor" who tells him "Don't listen to your wife!" Simply outrageous.

Yep, and quite typical for MLMs who are packed with these heartless greedy deluded *******s who will not think twice about breaking up someone's family as long as it helps expand their downline.

An example of what the DSA is up to:
http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/ps...Arguments.html
They lobby in favor of schemes like ACN, for example that they should not have to disclose information about what the average "independent representative" actually makes, and how many of them drop out every year. Such information would of course effectively shut down many MLMs, or force them to adopt more reasonable business models, as people would clearly see they have better chances making money with pretty much anything else.

[idyllically_me]

So a friend approached me recently, telling me about this "amazing opportunity" that has just sprouted out. Being naturally skeptical, I checked it out, by going to my friends house for a "catchup" and then subsequently a "Beginner's presentation".

I had previously worked in the telecommunications industry and I knew more than most about the perils of the industry. I knew if I was going to make this $500 investment I would need to know the details.

I asked about the business model. I was actually interested in the product, the plans on offer and how the video phone connected with the internet. Each time I asked about the details, I got given a non-chalant answer, such as "the details are something that we can work out later, I want to know whether you are interested". If anything they were trying to get me interested in the money instead of the product. When I started to question the facts such as the TC saying that he regularly made "free ACN to ACN calls overseas", I responded by asking "well how does that happen, do you actually pay the bills for the people who are overseas, and how is the infrastructure in place in a developing nation for the video phone". It started getting fishy when he replied "well, I know of people who do it...".

I've been a salesperson before and I know a sales pitch when I hear it. And this guy didn't lie that well (I personally do a much better job!).

When I went to the presentation, they made coordinated clapping sounds, something that I would expect more from a cult/Jerry Springer than a professional organisation.

The final sticking point for me, was that if I wanted to work as much as I wanted to in this scheme, I'd only earn $80 over 4 months. No thanks, I'll rather get a part time job at Maccas. Its sad that my friends have already been sucked in, and once someone makes up their mind about something its hard to change that.

- idyllically_me