Western Union?

[forumdood007]

I see that most, if not all, the Chinese online fraud sites use Western Union for their financial transactions. That was my experience anyway. I got ripped off, contacted Western Union who told me to pound sand basically. Why aren't they being held accountable for facilitating millions of dollars being transfered to criminals?

frustrated

[John Fairheart]

Why aren't they being held accountable for facilitating millions of dollars being transfered to criminals?

Because they are not responsible for the actions of people who transfer said cash to people that the *victim* does not know. Western Union have clear statements regarding the sending of money to unknown people that you have dealings with.

How would Western Union know that a sender is really sending money to a fraudster? How would they know that the person you send money too isn't going to send you what you are paying for? Please take some time to think about that.

Western Union run a money transfer service, that is ALL they do. Read their terms & conditions, read their advice, and they do say that using their services for any kind of 'business' transaction should be avoided.

Read their statement HERE (http://www.westernunion.com/WUCOMWEB/staticMid.do?method=load&pagename=fraudIndex).

In the end the last line of defence is the person sending the money. The responsibility is entirely that of the sender. Western Union will assist if they can, but if the money is picked up, it is the same as leaving your wallet on a bus or train -- it's gone, period.

In some countries, especially Africa, Western Union has a bad name because of the corrupt nature of the countries themselves, and the people in it. This is why scammers use Western Union, because it is easy to at get the cash.

Following the advice of Western Union means you should never send money to someone you do not personally know, if you ignore that advice, it is entirely on your own shoulders.

:)

[forumdood007]

yeah, I'm all too aware of "caveat emptor" just wish I had a legal way to profit from criminal transactions and hide behind a policy....shame on Western Union's board of directors. Just saying.....

[John Fairheart]

just wish I had a legal way to profit from criminal transactions and hide behind a policy

A small number of years ago I would have agreed with you, but Western Union have improved their anti-fraud stance by very large amounts, so now I cannot.

Blaming a company for a persons actions which go against the companies advice has nothing to do with hiding behind policy, it is called the LAW. Anyone ignoring the advice only has themselves to point the finger at if they loose money in a scam.

[Frazzle]

just wish I had a legal way to profit from criminal transactions and hide behind a policy

Why would you want to profit from some kind of criminal (or even unethical) activity? Even if their were no consequencest? This is the kind of thinking behind the recent bank and share market collapses, MLM, the Moller air-car, the USAF's $10,000 shovels, and any number of dubious enterprises.

I'd also like to point out that WU had been profiting by providing a useful service to millions of people long before Nigerians started scamming people. Are you going to blame the USPS for providing a service which allows scammers to send fake checks? The Internet for allowing scammers to send their emails?

[Nyla]

Just to add to what's already been said, privacy advocates would also be screaming their heads off if cash transfer services made it a habit to pry deeply into each customer's reason for sending cash to the recipient. Western Union, Moneygram, et al. are cash transfer services, period, emphasis on the word "cash". They don't offer due diligence, it is not a credit-based transaction, and they quite plainly state that their services are not meant for business transactions or transactions with strangers. You pay them to produce cash for a recipient who can provide a minimal amount of information that proves they are the intended recipient. In some cases, that may be nothing but a transfer number and answer to a "security question". You typically sign a form attesting that you understand that when you make the transfer.

The service was designed to quickly and easily send cash to acquaintances who may be traveling or living away from home, possibly without photo ID. They don't pretend to offer the same consumer protection services that a credit card company does.

Blaming a cash transfer service for losing money to a scammer is similar to blaming your bank for "allowing" you to write a personal check for a short term loan to a person who makes a habit of never repaying such loans, a crooked mechanic, or a contractor who never completes the work on your house. It isn't the bank's responsibility, or even within their power, to do due diligence on anyone whom you choose to pay. Proper due diligence services take a lot of effort and expertise and can cost hundreds of dollars. Expecting Western Union to even attempt to do so is unrealistic.

It's even unrealistic to expect a money transfer clerk to give out all the advance fee fraud warnings relevant to the country where you are sending money. We've got a whopping big site here that covers thousands of variations on advance fee fraud. We've put it together over months, with several volunteers. Good luck trying to warn someone trying to make a transfer about all of them. Any one of them could be relevant if you're shipping money off to China. How far into the four hour talk on Wang Quin, the cheap brand name electronics direct from China, the fake Nikes, the fake Lacoste, the fake golf clubs, the fake Apple products, the dead bank customer, the diplomatic courier, the nonexistent pets, and the fake lotteries would the average would-be customer zone out? And the four hour warning would still be totally pointless if it turned out the customer was actually sending money to a job scammer for what he thinks is the job opportunity of a lifetime... That's especially unrealistic if the clerk happens to be an employee who typically does a totally different job at the local grocery store. Western Union terminals are typically located at service desks at groceries in my area.

As Frazzle already pointed out, many innocuous or even necessary services are used and abused by scammers. They use FedEx, USPS, UPS and other shipping companies to move fake checks and stolen goods. They use lax regulations in certain countries to open more or less anonymous personal bank accounts. They twist the banking practices regarding the clearance of checks to their advantage. They use cash transfer services to receive money. They even abuse internet relay telephone operator services for the deaf to conduct phone scams. Wherever there's a loophole or ease of use, scammers will exploit it.