Scammers' cheques

[Big Al]

Hi,for the benefit of all,can one of our legal types tell us the safest way to deal with a cheque received from a scammer to be banked and some of the funds returned? ie report it to the local police? or to their bank? or some other authorities? as a victim could be in a quandry as to the best course of action to remain safe, thanks,Big Al

[Nyla]

I'm not a legal type, but I've found it varies, depending on who the victim is, where the victim is, what their local police are like, who their bank is, the amount of the check, and what the attitude of the local secret service field office is. It also depends on whether the check has actually been cashed or not. Banks seem way more interested in a check you managed to cash, because it means their money is at risk.

I generally tell them to start by contacting their bank's fraud department, especially if the check is supposedly drawn on the same bank. I tell them to turn over copies of the emails to prove that they were the victim of a scam, and if possible, what the check arrived in. Some banks investigate and will contact the authorities for you. Some will look at you with the same interest they would show if you offered them a piece of used gum. Especially if they spotted the fake and didn't even temporarily lose any of their money, and if they do not believe you were actively trying to defraud them.

Next stop, local police, to see if they will file a police report. See above. They may express the same interest as if you offered them a piece of used gum from the bottom of your shoe. Especially if you didn't lose money and/or the bank didn't get taken.

Then, try phoning the local secret service field office, phone numbers and locations available on their site, and see if they're interested in investigating. Ditto above.

If the check happens to look like it was mailed from inside the country, then also contact your postmaster and see if they want to take a report, because committing fraud via the mail is generally a federal offense. Be aware that all of these people may decline to take a report, because they will most likely figure that there is little point and little profit in investigating, due to the tiny possibility of ever making an arrest. They also tend to focus very little effort on "no loss" crimes, which is understandable, given the tight resources of most law enforcement agencies.

I also now encourage victims to file with http://www.ic3.gov/ strictly for statistical purposes, and to help encourage the powers that be to see that law enforcement should get some support and resources, because it is a widespread problem.

I hate to sound pessimistic, but I also hate to give the targets of this scam false hope. I've encountered entirely too many victims who have come back to me after I encouraged them to file these reports and said "The bank/police/field office told me to go away and count myself lucky I didn't lose anything/more than I did." to not tell them that they may get turned away at every door. I encourage them to try, but I also explain why the local offices may decline to take a report.

If they managed to bank the check, I encourage them to be more persistent about getting a police report, at least, just as legal protection. It helps to have it on record that you were a victim, in case the bank ever gets cranky at you in the future for trying to cash a second bad check and decides you might be up to no good. I encountered one woman who had been victimized so many times by the time I spoke to her that, literally, her own bank had banned her from ever coming in to cash a check. They had branded her either a bad counterfeit artist who didn't get the hint or a very bad customer who didn't recognize fake checks that the teller kept catching.

[Big Al]

H i Nyla, thanks for your reply, this is pretty much what i thought and is why i asked for input from the legal types as it seems as though the victim could be given the run arouind by the powers that be, and hoped they could shed some light on how the victim could improve their chances of avoiding strife from the legal proffesion as well as cutting the chances of action being taken against them for having a dud cheque in their possesion, thanks Big Al

[Nyla]

Best course is not to keep them in your possession. If the authorities won't accept it, shred it. Or at the very least, permanently deface it so it could not be cashed.

[Saturn Girl]

Defacement of the check is a good idea. Yes, a person who is trying to do the right thing by turning to authorities may get a run-around. A person should never try to negotiate an instrument they KNOW is forged. They should not try to negitiate if they THINK it may be forged. If they aren't sure, start with the bank.

Not sure if that clears anything up, bigal.

[Browade]

@Big Al
In the US possession of the check is not a Federal Crime, but most states have a Possession of Forged Instrument Law on the books. As long as you are not trying to pass them, they make fair trophies. My collection includes one for $2,000,000 and the entire collection is up to almost $5,000,000 total.
Just so much useless paper that it cost the scammers good money to send me (actually I had the $2,000,000 check sent to the USSS office in Montgomery. They are in a Finance Center so the address does not look like the cops would be there)

FUN ASIDE. There is one item you do not want in your possession at all; and that is one of the counterfeit US Postal Money Orders. By Federal Law these are US Currency and it is Federal crime to even have one. If you receive one of these contact the nearest Postal Inspectors office or just take it to your local Postmaster and let them give it to the Postal Inspectors.

The Postal Inspectors caught some West Africans in Texas buying the original money orders for a dollar and sending them to Nigeria for clonning into $1,000 counterfeit checks, and they all got 5 years in the Federal Prison.

[George Dixon]

Bigal,

If in doubt (and after getting any useful intel from them) you could always destroy them. What you havn't got won't get you into trouble.

George

[joewein]

Possession is a US Federal Crime, but only if it is with intent to deceive.

http://www.fraudwatchers.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2058

[Newbie81]

What if the friend is already in for fraud charges on (in a totally different matter) but has not cashed the check still what should the friend do then? Shouldn't the person be afraid of the cops thinking that they are just trying to defraud a bank again?

[George Dixon]

what should the friend do then?

Like I said above, what you don't have won't cause problems. I f you think handing it in will complicate the issue, then promptly dispose of it.

[Browade]

@What George said.

If he does not take it to a bank there is no fraud, if he burns it there is no possession of a fruadulent instrument.

It is like this, if I am walking down the street at night with a prybar in my hand, the police will stop me and check me out and usually let me go after they ID me and check and find no history of crime. If they find that I have been arrested in the past for burglary, I will probably be charged with possession of burglary tools. Your friend has about as much business with that check in his hand, as a red hot iron. If he is caught with it in his possession I would bet the police would charge him for possession given his prior history, and be able to use that history against him in court as evidence of a pattern of criminal behavior.

[Unregistered]

Hi Guys,

I got one cheque yesterday, by mail. It has come from Canada and is a cashiers check from JP MOrgan Chase Co. Although, I didnt get it yet as they say in the letter that i shall write or phone them in order to release the hold and do not go to the bank before asking them. Can someone explain me what are they going to do next?? I already did a research and wrote to JP Morgan's site but still no reply. So, I guess I will just wait and see how they act... Till then, can you help me out here, mates??? Thanks, best regards,

marco Missaka- BRazil.
<admin edit - removed email address>

[Nyla]

Could you elaborate? Was a letter of any sort included, say, notifying you of a lottery win? Canada is a bit of a haven for snail mail lottery scammers who send forged checks.

In any case, the scam will probably go like this. You phone, you're asked a lot of squirrely questions about how fast you can cash the check and send the money by Western Union, or maybe Moneygram, and you will be promised you can either keep a percentage of the check, or that paying a "fee" will net you an even bigger check. You send the money, the scammer disappears, leaving you to repay the bank when they discover the check is forged/fraudulent/stolen/altered, and possibly facing federal charges for passing a forged instrument. You would be legally responsible for the money you withdrew.

The scammer, assuming they identified and arrested, tried and convicted, would likely receive probation. Canada apparently does not treat the sending of a forged instrument by postal mail as a felony crime. It's one reason lottery scammers are partial to operating from there.

That about sums it up.

You should file a police report and notify the postal inspector, so they can investigate. Definitely don't attempt to cash the check. Any check you were not expecting with instructions to place a phone call for "further instruction" before cashing it should be immediately suspect.

[Unregistered]

Hi Guys, i will write it down for you as much as i can, ok:

Ontario Security Financial Services
3269 BaY street , suite 505
Toronto-Ontario- m5f-6g8
Phone and fax 416-848-9569
email: osfs@financier.com

July 19, 2006

Dear Mr...(my name)

This is to officially inform you that the above name establishment has been mandated to release the payment of your total sum ($48,690,00 usd)immediately. Be advised that you are to call us as soon as you have the Cheque, So that we can remove the hold that is placed on the Cheque for security proposesand this allow for faster clearance.

Further instruction will be given to you immediately we complete the verification process, note that you might be requested to froward to this Office our charges. Please note that you are not liable for this amount as all necessary arrangement have been provided by your associates. You are to contact the director Mr. Larry Oliver @ this NUmber m(416-848-9569 ex1) or email @ osfs@financier.com
You are advised to also contact the undersigned for any information you might need in regard to this massage (with a).

Sincerely yours,

Mrs. Marshall Smith
Account Rep.

Building a Safe Business Worldwide (banner)


---And then i wrote to them twice and in the second email they go like this:

Re: Hold Release

Dear Sir


In regards to the Check that was sent to you, Please be informed that
the hold
has been released you are to visit your Bank and deposit the Check. You
shall be contacted by your partners as soon as possible.

Thanks-For your Co-operation

Faithfully Yours

Mrs. Susan Baker
Senior Account Rep.

--- What shall I do now, I went to the bank and they have never seen anything like this before and some of them encouraged me but some of them dont. I even wrote to JP Morgan Chase, but no reply. Thanks guys, God bless you all!!!

[George Dixon]

--- What shall I do now, I went to the bank and they have never seen anything like this before and some of them encouraged me but some of them dont. I even wrote to JP Morgan Chase, but no reply. Thanks guys, God bless you all!!!

The one thing you should not do is try and pay the cheque in!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm not sure what you mean about "some of them encouraged me", but you should do only one of two things - take it to the police or destroy it.

[John Fairheart]

Ontario Security Financial Services
3269 BaY street , suite 505
Toronto-Ontario- m5f-6g8
Phone and fax 416-848-9569
email: osfs@financier.com

Financier.com is a domain owned by Mail.com, a favourite used by scammers. Financier.com is a free webmail account. The company name 'OSFS' is probably made up as I cannot find any references to it.

As above, you MUST NOT cash that cheque. If people at the bank are encouraging you, then I suggest you report them to the police too. Please do not cash that cheque, no matter what anyone outside this forum tells you, the cheque is a fraud, and cashing it puts you at risk of prosecution. Take the advice given earlier. Hand it to the police or destroy it.

[poirot]

Not that you need more proof but, you can verify the postal code yourself on Canada Post's web site:
http://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pcl/bin/range-e.asp

Results are that it's non-existant.

[ladyune657]

The bank has the cheque received from Canada. There was no return address of any kind. All I have is the person's email address. Should I give the bank this information?

[Nyla]

If you desposited the check, yes, you want to notify your bank ASAP and let them know all you know about the scammer. Printouts of your emails would be preferable.

[poirot]

tigr, you are being scammed. The whole thing is a fraud.